Sunday, July 4, 2021

When is enough enough?

When we opened my mom her new checking account here with a local bank, I took her old checks so she wouldn't accidentally try to use them. I took the box of checks she had in her desk. Also in the box was an old checking register that started 2018. I had skimmed through it to see what she may have given her brother (and my son), and it was eye opening, but I didn't tally it up. She ran out of room in this checkbook register right when she moved over here, so it's covers from March 2018 to May 2020.

This is just starting in 2018. I haven't looked in her paperwork for earlier checking registers. In 2018 she gave my uncle 5 different checks. For some reason she was giving him monthly checks for $700 through from April through July 1 of that year. Then a whopping check for $24,000 a few weeks later. None of these say "loan" in her register. The monthly checks she just wrote his name and the month. The big check she just wrote his name.

In 2019 she gave him 3 checks, for a total of $9,100 and next to his name she wrote loan. 

So, just since 2018 she has given him over $35,000. I know she has given/loaned him money before that, before I moved over here, and lived a few miles from her. (pre 2017). I can specifically remember her saying she gave him some for an old car he bought and was going to fix up and sell and repay her when he sold it. It's most likely she never saw that money back either. 

And, if he put that $24,000 in his safe deposit box, like he's mentioned to me a couple of times the past couple of years (he said something like your mom gave me a large amount of money and I put it in my safe deposit box)...why would he have needed to borrow more money from her after that?? Like I said, his stories don't quite add up. I think the only reason he has brought up that large amount a couple of times is because he knows at some point I would probably see she paid him this and he wanted to make sure he's covered with a story.

I can see no deposits she made where he repaid anything. It's just deposits from her social security, her transfers from her retirement account, and deposits from me repaying the loan I took.

Plus in spring of 2020, she gave him her car, which he sold and got the money to keep for himself.

All this to a guy who worked his whole life, has no wife or dependents to support, has retirement and social security and also has VA benefits, owns his home and several vehicles and classic cars. He was a college teacher most of his working life. Made a decent salary. Uncle is a very nice guy. Can make anyone laugh. But, he is also what I would call a "fibber".  Lots of examples over the years, but for example when we wanted to get my mom to stop driving, he said he'd take her car, because his little truck was getting old and he'd like her car as his daily driver. Ok, that's a good way to help him out, right? He literally sold it before he had it a week. Both dd and I knew exactly that's what he would do. He had zero intention of keeping that car. He just wanted the money from it. Awhile back he told me he wanted to give me my grandpa's old shotgun (well, for my husband, really) that he had. I said dh would LOVE having that. A day later he calls with some bs story about he forgot he loaned it to a cousin and just found out the cousin sold it? He's always changing his stories. Or like one time he told me he had called my mom the day before and chatted with her, yet her cell phone log showed no record of it. Where my mom lived before they were about a 2 hour drive apart. I was taking my mom to meet him halfway to have breakfast. After we get on the road he calls (bit surprise, LOL) and says his truck isn't starting, he's working in it, can we meet closer to him? By the time we got done driving we had almost driven to where he lives. I honestly don't believe he was having any truck issues, that's just the way he is. Just little lies like that, over all the years. I always have taken what he says with a grain of salt. Like he's told me before I am in his will, after my mom, since he doesn't have any wife or kids. I'm not even believing that, either. He's not malicious, nor does he ever cause any drama, but he's also the type who will take advantage of a situation if the opportunity presents itself. He is good about keeping in touch and checking in on her, but sometimes I wonder how much of that is to make sure he keeps himself "in the money".

If he does at some point ask for money again (though he hasn't now in almost 2 years) I think I will first say "didn't you tell me you put a bunch of her money in your safe deposit box? Feel free to use that for your needs". Just like he was a few months ago telling me she keeps offering to send him money so he thought maybe she could just start sending him $900 a month (to stay under the gift tax amount), that he would just put in his safe box. I'm like No!! What in the hell would be the point in that?! Her money is earning great with her investment guy, I'm not sending almost a $1000 a month to sit in a safe deposit box. He said oh it was just an idea to get her to stop asking if she could send him money. I said just keep telling her no thank you and just say her money is earning good where it is. Geez!

I'm sure if I find her older checking registers I'll find even more money lent/given to uncle, since my dad died (2009). I'm not going to feel guilty about having her reduce his percentage in her will/beneficiaries. He's gotten more than enough over the years. And for the most part it all seems to be for his "hobby" of buying and selling cars. Not because he is poor and can't afford his basic necessities.

I am glad that since I got so involved with taking care of her since the fall of 2019 no one has been "lent" or given any more money. I guess it's not so easy to ask her for money now that they have to go through someone else to do it. I have a feeling he now knows the bank of sis is now closed. I think the suggestion of her sending him $900 a month recently was just to feel me out and see if I am as gullible as she apparently was.

I guess I'm just of the mindset that her money is hers and her immediate family. Not his. Dh and I would probably loan our siblings money (if we were close to them), if they really needed it. If it wasn't paid back, we wouldn't loan again and again and again. (and especially not in the large sums my mom has given him). I don't think siblings have any claim or right to think they should have some of the money. The money situation between a parent and their children is different, and more lenient, to me, than a sibling. If the situation were reversed and uncle had a large estate and children to leave it to, my mom would never ever think she should get any of it, no matter how little money she had. If dh was close to his 4 siblings, he would never expect to get any inheritance from them, even if he was their best, closest friend/sibling.

I also run this by other people who I'm close to and value their opinion. Most often their opinion is even less generous than mine, so I don't really feel like I am being unreasonable.

I am happy that her wealth still continues to grow and not decline with her expenses in retirement. I'm sure at some point, if she needs full time nursing care, it might not keep growing and start declining, but the longer she goes before needing f/t care, the more her account keeps growing and keeps adding to cover the increased expenses she will have at that point, without needing to start reducing the balance. She certainly isn't going to run out of money! I'm enjoying watching it grow the past almost 2 years. I looked at her retirement fund statement from Oct 2019 compared to today's balance. It has increased over $200,000 in less than 2 years. Last year she earned 9% on her investments, per her broker.

15 comments:

  1. I understand how you feel. I am so glad, you are taking care of your mother's finances so that, she will never run out of money when she needs it the most. I wonder what your uncle would do, if you asked for say, two thousand dollars from him. May be from that Safety Deposit Box? Just a thought. I can be mean you see.

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    1. I can be mean, too, haha. I really try not to be, but sometimes I just run the scenario though my head anyway! I admire how you and your family take care of each other, but that's pretty rare here in America to care for extended family to that level. Shoot, half the people won't even care for their elderly parents.

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  2. It really does sound like your uncle was taking advantage of your mom's confusion doesn't it. And from what you say, you would have no problem with her giving him money if he needed it for basics/necessities. I'm glad you've put a stop to that though. I was just thinking about what your step-brother once said, about thinking your mom wouldn't have enough money to see out her days when in fact there is plenty. Since he had power of attorney I wonder if he might have been thinking about syphoning some off and laying the groundwork for you to expect to see less in her account anyway? Like T'Pol said, I'm glad she's got you taking care of all that now!

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    1. It doesn't appear step brother had taken any of her money. BUT - at that time mom's BF was still in the picture, so step brother probably didn't want to do anything then. There are only 2 plausible explanations I can come up with as to why he would even fathom she would run out of money at all, let alone in 10 years. 1)He's an idiot (which I doubt, both he and wife are college educated) or 2) he was planning to start siphoning, like you said and that laid the groundwork for him to say in 10 years, that's she's out of money to live on.

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  3. He sounds like a toxic conniving individual, even if he can make people laugh with a fib or ten. I'd keep your mom(and her money)an arm's length from him. While he may have some good intentions I think his ulterior motive is to get his hands on as much of your mom's money as he can. Just an opinion from someone standing looking in who has experienced similar scenarios.

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    1. That's the feedback I got from a couple people close to me, too. I have no doubt whatsoever he'd take advantage of any situation he could.

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  4. I would be a whole lot less angry than you are. I am so glad you are there to keep him from getting more of her assets. I wonder if brother and step brother were in cahoots. I think I would have to tell him that I found the check registers and all the loans but no repayment and say I was wondering when he could start paying back the loans. Make him sweat...lol.

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    1. I meant I would be angrier that you are, a lot less angrier than I would be.

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    2. Uncle and step brother were not in cahoots. They hardly even knew each other at all. Uncle lives in another state and family get togethers with my mom's side of the family rarely included my step dad's kids and their wives/husband. Uncle was very supportive that I take over my mom's care and money and has said many times he's so glad she is here with me and I am taking care of everything for her.

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  5. Your uncle is fullofit!
    Why would anyone put a large sum of money in a safe deposit box?
    Am I missing something?
    I call BS!

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    1. Your guess is as good as mine! For a long time, in an envelope in my mom's little safebox she has, was a key to my uncles safe deposit box. He took it back when he came to help her move. I don't believe his story for a minute.

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  6. I am going through a situation here that is even more bizarre than yours. And it's not just one side of the family, it's mom (deceased and previously divorced from my dad) dad (Covid positive last fall,) lost his home (through no fault of his own while ill) and his lady friend (her family barred his presence despite his caring for her for the last 11 years - her family took precedence over ours) and no family member able to house him. Mothers inherited property not sold - her estate not settled, brother was executor of her estate and trying to force other family (one living uncle and one other living aunt - brother and sister) to get property sold etc. etc. the list goes on. Sister with mobility issues and making no effort to get help and a brother (the executor) who apparently think it is up to me to care for our dad. So he is in assisted living - loves the people, hates being there and I go visit him weekly, we provide his groceries and other items when needed and I handled his checkbook and bills until he was able to take over for himself. (thank goodness) There is so much more to this whole mess that I really am amazed at how dis-functional our entire family is.
    I'm so glad you are controlling your mothers accounts. Blood is thicker than water, until money is involved, then it's every man for himself - greedy and underhanded and now, afraid they might get caught and called on it.
    You're doing a great job - I know, because I've seen the other side. Take care. Don't question your actions. You're fine. Ranee (MN)

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    1. I had to read that twice to figure out! That's a lot to deal with. Makes me glad that I'm an only child in that regard. Maybe your dad will now see who's actually going to be there for him.

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  7. Keep up the good work managing your mother's finances. For her to be earning 9% on her investments is very good indeed in the present climate.
    As for her brother he does sound like a likeable chap but I wouldn't let him within a mile of her money!

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    1. thank you! When I worked up my spreadsheet to see how long her money should last I also estimated a very conservative 4% each year (and her money still lasted over 20 years). So, the higher returns she's been getting is even better.

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